1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

We are committed to the support of families and students in meeting rigorous academic standards, to promoting experiential, life-long learning skills, and to building a unique learning community which

Carmen Rivas - HMEA Hartford CT

Carmen Rivas Carmen Elisa Rivas-Martinez 1957 - 2013 Obituary Condolences Carmen Elisa Martinez, 57, a lifetime long resident of Hartford, CT departed this life

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A Great Big Chair - Chronicling America

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1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

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Group 8 at the Reeves DNA Project Timothy Rives, 1625 – 1692

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Francis, Raymond Ross 8-31-16 Toronto, ON Carman 71 Gabryel, Stanislaw 09-08-16 Toronto, ON Machine Clerk 93 Gaffey, Julia Amelia 07-04-16 Toronto, ON Timekeeper 93 Galatiuk, John Samuel 02-03-16 Regina, SK * 93 Garcia, Victorino P 06-24-16 Calgary, AB Clerk 78 Gauthier, Jean Marie 11-23-16 Trois Rives, QC Claims Clerk 87

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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

2 BEFORE THE SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE

3 _________

4 In re: ) [AO]

) Docket No. 15-0071

5 )

Milk in California )

6 ___________________________ )

8 BEFORE U.S. ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE

JILL S. CLIFTON

Friday, October 2, 2015

9:00 a.m.

12 Clovis Veterans Memorial District

808 4th Street

13 Clovis, California 93613

14 15

16 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

17 VOLUME 9

18 19 20 21
22

23 Reported by:

24 Myra A. Pish CSR

Certificate No. 11613

25
1748
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 APPEARANCES:

2 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF Office of the General Counsel

AGRICULTURE: BY: BRIAN HILL, ESQ.

3 LAUREN BECKER, ESQ.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF WILLIAM RICHMOND, Dairy

5 AGRICULTURE: Product Marketing Specialist

LAUREL MAY, Marketing Specialist

6 MEREDITH FRISIUS, Marketing Specialist

7 CALIFORNIA DAIRIES, Law Offices of Marvin Beshore

8 INC., DAIRY FARMERS BY: MARVIN BESHORE, ESQ.

OF AMERICA, INC., Hanson Bridgett, San Francisco

9 LAND O'LAKES, INC.: BY: JOHN VLAHOS, ESQ.

MEGAN OLIVER THOMPSON, ESQ.

DAIRY INSTITUTE OF Davis Wright Tremaine

11 CALIFORNIA: BY: CHIP ENGLISH, ESQ.

ASHLEY VULIN, ESQ.

12 LEPRINO FOODS: SUE TAYLOR, Vice-President

13 Dairy Economics and Policy

14 DEAN FOODS COMPANY: ROB BLAUFUSS

HILMAR CHEESE JOHN VETNE

16 COMPANY: JAMES DEJONG

CALIFORNIA PRODUCER Stoel Rives

18 HANDLERS ASSOCIATION: BY: NICOLE HANCOCK, ESQ

SELECT MILK PRODUCERS: MILTNER LAW FIRM, INC.

20 BY: RYAN MILTNER, ESQ.

21
22
23
24
25
1749
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 I N D E X - V O L U M E 9

2 WITNESSES IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER

CLIFFORD CARMAN:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. BECKER 1765

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ENGLISH 1768

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. Beshore 1768 6

7 DR. ERIC ERBA:

8 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. VLAHOS 1770

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. HANCOCK 1839

9 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. VLAHOS 1853

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ENGLISH 1855

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHIEK 1888

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. VETNE 1898 11

12 ---o0o---

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
23
24
25
1750
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 I N D E X - V O L U M E 9 2

INDEX OF EXHIBITS

3 NO. DESCRIPTION I.D. EVD. 4

41 USDA LONG TERM PROJECTIONS,

5 FEBRUARY 2015 1765 1766

6 42 TESTIMONY OF DR. ERIC ERBA 1772 1835

7 43 EXHIBITS OF DR. ERIC ERBA 1772 1835

8 44 DCI LETTER TO DAVID IKARI

FROM DR. ERIC ERBA --

9 NOVEMBER 9, 2009 1882 1884

10 45 PUBLIC HEARING STATE OF CA

DEPARTMENT OF FOOD & AGRICULTURE

11 DAIRY MARKETING BRANCH

THURSDAY, JUNE 3, 2015 1886 1888

13 46 PUBLIC HEARING STATE OF CA

DEPARTMENT OF FOOD & AGRICULTURE

14 DAIRY MARKETING BRANCH

THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2011

15 PAGES 9 TO 31 1924 1928

16 47 DCI LETTER TO MS. CANDACE GATES

RE: POST HEARING BRIEF TO

17 JULY 11, 2011 1929 1932

18 ---o0o--- 19 20 21
22
23
24
25
1751
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 FRIDAY, OCTOBER 2, 2015 - - MORNING SESSION

2 JUDGE CLIFTON: We're back on record on October 2, 2015,

3 9:00 a.m. on Friday. My name is Jill Clifton, I'm the United

4 States Administrative Law Judge who is assigned to take in

5 evidence at this milk hearing. This is Day 9 of our hearing.

6 The docket number as contained in the Hearing Clerk's

7 Office in the United States Department of Agriculture is, in

8 brackets, [AO], and then the docket number is 15-0071. The

9 transcript pages of today will be numbered in sequence to those

10 of yesterday.

11 I would like to take appearances of those

12 participating, beginning first with other employees of the

13 United States Department of Agriculture. I am one such

14 employee. I would like the others to line up, please, at the

15 podium and please, again, include the spelling of your name.

16 MS. MAY: Laurel May, L-A-U-R-E-L, M-A-Y, with USDA AMS

17 Dairy Program.

18 MR. RICHMOND: Good morning, William Richmond,

19 R-I-C-H-M-O-N-D, USDA and AMS and Dairy Programs. Good

20 morning.

21 MS. FRISIUS: Meredith Frisius, M-E-R-E-D-I-T-H,

22 F-R-I-S-I-U-S, with USDA Dairy Programs.

23 MR. CARMAN: Good morning, Clifford Carman, C-A-R-M-A-N,

24 Assistant to the Deputy Administrator, Dairy Programs.

25 MR. NIERMAN: Good morning, Jason Nierman, N-I-E-R-M-A-N,

1752

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 Assistant Market Administrator for Federal Order 5, on detail

2 with AMS Dairy Programs.

3 MR. SCHAEFER: Henry Schaefer, H-E-N-R-Y, S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R.

4 I am with the Upper Midwest Milk Marketing Area, Federal Order

5 30, on detail to AMS Dairy Programs.

6 MS. BECKER: Good morning, Lauren Becker, B-E-C-K-E-R, USDA

7 Office of the General Counsel.

8 MR. HILL: Brian Hill, B-R-I-A-N, H-I-L-L Office of the

9 General Counsel.

10 JUDGE CLIFTON: And now we'll have proponent's teams,

11 beginning with those for Proposal Number 1.

12 MR. BESHORE: Good morning, Marvin Beshore, M-A-R-V-I-N,

13 B-E-S-H-O-R-E. Counsel for the proponents of Proposal

14 Number 1.

15 MR. VLAHOS: John Vlahos, Hanson Bridgett, J-O-H-N

16 V-L-A-H-O-S, Hanson, H-A-N-S-O-N. B-R-I-D-G-E-T-T, co-counsel

17 for the proponents of Proposal Number 1.

18 MS. OLIVER THOMPSON: Good morning, Megan Oliver Thompson,

19 Megan is M-E-G-A-N. I'm also with the Law Firm of Hanson

20 Bridgett and co-counsel for the proponents of Proposal

21 Number 1.

22 MR. SCHAD: Good morning, Dennis Schad, S-C-H-A-D,

23 Land O'Lakes.

24 MR. ERBA: Eric Erba, California Dairy, Inc., E-R-I-C,

25 E-R-B-A.

1753
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 MR. WEGNER: Thomas Wegner, T-H-O-M-A-S, W-E-G-N-E-R,

2 Land O'Lakes.

3 MR. HOLLON: Elvin Hollon, Dairy Farmers of America.

4 JUDGE CLIFTON: And Mr. Hollon, your last name, please.

5 MR. HOLLON: H-O-L-L-O-N.

6 MR. ENGLISH: Good morning, your Honor. Chip English

7 C-H-I-P, E-N-G-L-I-S-H, Davis Wright Tremaine, on behalf of the

8 Dairy Institute of California, proponents of Proposal Number 2.

9 MR. SCHIEK: Good morning, William Schiek, S-C-H-I-E-K.

10 I'm an Economist with the Dairy Institute of California.

11 MS. KALDOR: Good morning, Rachel Kaldor, R-A-C-H-E-L,

12 K-A-L-D-O-R, Executive Director of Dairy Institute of

13 California.

14 MR. BLAUFUSS: Good morning, Rob Blaufuss, B-L-A-U-F-U-S-S,

15 Dean Foods Company.

16 MR. DEJONG: James Dejong, J-A-M-E-S, D-E-J-O-N-G, with

17 Hilmar Cheese, a dairy farm manufacturer of cheese, whey, and

18 milk powder products.

19 MR. VETNE: John Vetne, V-E-T-N-E, representative for

20 Hilmar Cheese.

21 JUDGE CLIFTON: And now I'd like those who also have been

22 or expect to be participating -- I'm sorry, Ms. Hancock.

23 MS. HANCOCK: Nicole Hancock, H-A-N-C-O-C-K, with Stoel

24 Rives, S-T-O-E-L, R-I-V-E-S, representing the California

25 Producer Handlers Association and Ponderosa Dairy.

1754

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 JUDGE CLIFTON: Now I'd like those who may not be aligned

2 with a particular proposal, but either have been or will be

3 participating to identify themselves, please.

4 MR. MILTNER: Good morning, Ryan Miltner, M-I-L-T-N-E-R,

5 counsel for Select Milk Producers, Inc.

6 JUDGE CLIFTON: And I know of two people testifying, they

7 were identified yesterday. Is there anyone else here who would

8 like to testify today? All right. I see no one identifying

9 himself at this time, but we'll ask again later.

10 I would like now to address some preliminary matters.

11 As you know, next week we return to the Liberty Room

12 and we'll have a normal Monday through Friday schedule, except

13 Friday. On Friday we'll stop early Friday. Is the 9th of

14 October 2015. We will go off record no later than 12 noon on

15 October 9th. When we leave the Liberty Room on October 9th, we

16 will not resume the hearing until the 14th of October, at 9:00

17 in the morning, that's a Wednesday. That week will be a

18 three-day week -- Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, all in the

19 Liberty Room. My other preliminary announcement is with regard

20 to exhibits.

21 If I have rejected an exhibit, it goes onto the website

22 in the same timely fashion as if I had accepted it. And if I

23 have rejected an exhibit -- I have only done one so far -- I

24 expect that rejection to be temporary, I'm just waiting for

25 some additional foundation so that I understand the document.

1755

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 I don't have any quarrel with its authenticity, but I find that

2 its relevance will be more clear to all of us if we have some

3 more testimony about it, so that's the reason I rejected it.

4 Mr. English?

5 MR. ENGLISH: Chip English. And just for clarity, as we're

6 discussing these kinds of things, your Honor, there is also one

7 exhibit, Number 30, that I never offered, therefore, you didn't

8 have the opportunity to reject it, and so I assume it will be

9 similarly going up since it's sort of shown up. But I -- it

10 doesn't matter to me, I just thought the record could be clear

11 about what's happening to it, and we did not offer it yet

12 because we did not have a witness who recognized it. That was

13 the Chicago economist power point presentation that Mr. Hollon

14 did not recognize.

15 JUDGE CLIFTON: Let's decide what we think about that. I

16 was thinking that things would go on the website when they have

17 either been accepted or rejected, not when they have been

18 identified, but I'm flexible on that.

19 MR. ENGLISH: And I'm indifferent. I just didn't want it

20 to be -- I'm fine with not doing that, the only question it

21 seems to me that if you are looking at the website and you see

22 sequentially, and then you see a number 30, and there's -- or

23 you don't see a 30, you will see 29, 31, there might be some

24 mystery for those who aren't attending. But I don't have a few

25 other than that.

1756

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 JUDGE CLIFTON: But another view that I just thought of,

2 and hadn't thought of before, is that people who can see the

3 transcript and see references to that exhibit, will want to

4 look at it. I would. So I think you are right, I think our

5 best course is to put them all on the website if they have been

6 identified and have been referred to in the transcript. So

7 I'll see what other people think about that.

8 MR. BESHORE: Marvin Beshore. The only concern I would

9 have would be that the website also reflect whether they have

10 been accepted or rejected or what their status is, so that way

11 when somebody's looking at it they know what's going on.

12 MR. ENGLISH: I think that's entirely fair and if I could

13 identify, not offer, or whatever -- whatever makes sense, I

14 think that that obviously clarity, I have no disagreement with

15 counsel for cooperatives. Clarity in the record should be

16 there. So listing it shouldn't, somebody shouldn't be misled

17 into thinking it has been admitted, so we need to designate it

18 in some way as not yet offered or something.

19 MR. VETNE: John Vetne. I agree with all the exhibits that

20 have been identified ought to be on the website. It may be --

21 it may be difficult, logistically difficult or tedious to

22 indicate for each exhibit what's been offered or accepted. I

23 suggest an easier alternative is simply in the caption of the

24 exhibits, these are the exhibits that have been offered, and

25 some may not have been received, or something like that, so

1757

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - VOLUME IX 1 that the reader knows that just because you see an exhibit, it

[PDF] 1 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

2 BEFORE THE SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE

3 _________

4 In re: ) [AO]

5 )

Milk in California )

6 ___________________________ )

8 BEFORE U.S. ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE

JILL S. CLIFTON

Friday, October 2, 2015

9:00 a.m.

12 Clovis Veterans Memorial District

808 4th Street

13 Clovis, California 93613

16 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

17 VOLUME 9

23 Reported by:

24 Myra A. Pish CSR

Certificate No. 11613

2 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF Office of the General Counsel

AGRICULTURE: BY: BRIAN HILL, ESQ.

3 LAUREN BECKER, ESQ.

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF WILLIAM RICHMOND, Dairy

5 AGRICULTURE: Product Marketing Specialist

LAUREL MAY, Marketing Specialist

6 MEREDITH FRISIUS, Marketing Specialist

8 INC., DAIRY FARMERS BY: MARVIN BESHORE, ESQ.

9 LAND O'LAKES, INC.: BY: JOHN VLAHOS, ESQ.

MEGAN OLIVER THOMPSON, ESQ.

DAIRY INSTITUTE OF Davis Wright Tremaine

11 CALIFORNIA: BY: CHIP ENGLISH, ESQ.

ASHLEY VULIN, ESQ.

13 Dairy Economics and Policy

14 DEAN FOODS COMPANY: ROB BLAUFUSS

HILMAR CHEESE JOHN VETNE

16 COMPANY: JAMES DEJONG

CALIFORNIA PRODUCER Stoel Rives

18 HANDLERS ASSOCIATION: BY: NICOLE HANCOCK, ESQ

SELECT MILK PRODUCERS: MILTNER LAW FIRM, INC.

20 BY: RYAN MILTNER, ESQ.

2 WITNESSES IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER

CLIFFORD CARMAN:

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ENGLISH 1768

7 DR. ERIC ERBA:

8 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. VLAHOS 1770

9 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. VLAHOS 1853

10 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHIEK 1888

12 ---o0o---

INDEX OF EXHIBITS

41 USDA LONG TERM PROJECTIONS,

5 FEBRUARY 2015 1765 1766

6 42 TESTIMONY OF DR. ERIC ERBA 1772 1835

7 43 EXHIBITS OF DR. ERIC ERBA 1772 1835

8 44 DCI LETTER TO DAVID IKARI

FROM DR. ERIC ERBA --

9 NOVEMBER 9, 2009 1882 1884

10 45 PUBLIC HEARING STATE OF CA

DEPARTMENT OF FOOD & AGRICULTURE

11 DAIRY MARKETING BRANCH

THURSDAY, JUNE 3, 2015 1886 1888

13 46 PUBLIC HEARING STATE OF CA

DEPARTMENT OF FOOD & AGRICULTURE

14 DAIRY MARKETING BRANCH

THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2011

15 PAGES 9 TO 31 1924 1928

16 47 DCI LETTER TO MS. CANDACE GATES

RE: POST HEARING BRIEF TO

17 JULY 11, 2011 1929 1932

2 JUDGE CLIFTON: We're back on record on October 2, 2015,

3 9:00 a.m. on Friday. My name is Jill Clifton, I'm the United

4 States Administrative Law Judge who is assigned to take in

5 evidence at this milk hearing. This is Day 9 of our hearing.

6 The docket number as contained in the Hearing Clerk's

7 Office in the United States Department of Agriculture is, in

8 brackets, [AO], and then the docket number is 15-0071. The

9 transcript pages of today will be numbered in sequence to those

10 of yesterday.

11 I would like to take appearances of those

12 participating, beginning first with other employees of the

13 United States Department of Agriculture. I am one such